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	<title>Comments on: Black</title>
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	<link>http://godheval.net/black/</link>
	<description>Writer, Philosopher, Dreamer, Idealist</description>
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		<title>By: Godheval</title>
		<link>http://godheval.net/black/comment-page-1/#comment-644</link>
		<dc:creator>Godheval</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 06 Nov 2009 18:46:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://godheval.net/wordpress/?p=7#comment-644</guid>
		<description>Aha, finally some real feedback on this post.  Thank you.

I realized even as I wrote it that claiming &quot;American-ness&quot; would not be a complete solution.  To be honest, I am more aligned with Howard Zinn, in his thoughts on the &quot;&lt;a href=&quot;http://godheval.net/the-scourge-of-nationalism/&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Scourge of Nationalism&lt;/a&gt;&quot; (check that link).

But, I needed SOME alternative, just to get people to have somewhere to go in their heads after my thought experiment (of thinking of oneself as not &quot;black&quot;)  Everything you&#039;ve said is true about the problems of American-ness, about its inexorable association with whiteness, and about perhaps creating another schism for African-Americans.

The truth is that I could not think of any suitable &quot;replacement&quot; for blackness - not because blackness works - but because the real solution is to free oneself from ALL of these identity paradigms, to either be a true individual, or to dissolve within the holistic paradigm of humanity - the latter of which simply cannot be done by oneself and would require a thought revolution by the entire world.

So...and I&#039;m sure you saw this coming...another article:

Check out &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.godheval.net/culture-zero/&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Culture ZERO&lt;/a&gt;.

Related bits are in &quot;&lt;a href=&quot;http://www.godheval.net/the-hierarchy-of-identity/&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Hierarchy of Identity&lt;/a&gt;&quot;, which is where my thinking is really exposed as completely abstract, and the &quot;&lt;a href=&quot;http://www.godheval.net/philosophy/types/&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Types: The Composition of Being&lt;/a&gt;&quot; which underlies all of my ideas about identity.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Aha, finally some real feedback on this post.  Thank you.</p>
<p>I realized even as I wrote it that claiming &#8220;American-ness&#8221; would not be a complete solution.  To be honest, I am more aligned with Howard Zinn, in his thoughts on the &#8220;<a href="http://godheval.net/the-scourge-of-nationalism/" rel="nofollow">Scourge of Nationalism</a>&#8221; (check that link).</p>
<p>But, I needed SOME alternative, just to get people to have somewhere to go in their heads after my thought experiment (of thinking of oneself as not &#8220;black&#8221;)  Everything you&#8217;ve said is true about the problems of American-ness, about its inexorable association with whiteness, and about perhaps creating another schism for African-Americans.</p>
<p>The truth is that I could not think of any suitable &#8220;replacement&#8221; for blackness &#8211; not because blackness works &#8211; but because the real solution is to free oneself from ALL of these identity paradigms, to either be a true individual, or to dissolve within the holistic paradigm of humanity &#8211; the latter of which simply cannot be done by oneself and would require a thought revolution by the entire world.</p>
<p>So&#8230;and I&#8217;m sure you saw this coming&#8230;another article:</p>
<p>Check out <a href="http://www.godheval.net/culture-zero/" rel="nofollow">Culture ZERO</a>.</p>
<p>Related bits are in &#8220;<a href="http://www.godheval.net/the-hierarchy-of-identity/" rel="nofollow">Hierarchy of Identity</a>&#8220;, which is where my thinking is really exposed as completely abstract, and the &#8220;<a href="http://www.godheval.net/philosophy/types/" rel="nofollow">Types: The Composition of Being</a>&#8221; which underlies all of my ideas about identity.</p>
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		<title>By: phantomThought</title>
		<link>http://godheval.net/black/comment-page-1/#comment-641</link>
		<dc:creator>phantomThought</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 04 Nov 2009 05:30:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://godheval.net/wordpress/?p=7#comment-641</guid>
		<description>&quot;So-called “Black people” and “African-Americans”, their history notwithstanding, need to play a more significant role in defining what it means to just be American.&quot;

Heh. Looks like I missed a sentence. All I can say is that if the definition of America is changed to accommodate the richness of peoples here (which I think is a good idea), then that would mean that everyone in the world could/would be considered American since people from all over the world reside here. And for obvious economic reasons (see my capitalism post) that cannot happen. Hence the color stratification of &quot;Americans&quot;. So, to summarize, first you can ignore my post above because I basically repeated what you said. Second, the participation of people of color in sociopolitical circles/arenas is unlikely to be welcomed for the above reason, which leads to thirdly, you have a straightforward solution (or at least the beginnings of one) that is unlikely to be implemented unless Americans as a whole understand the entirety of the &quot;American experience&quot; and come together to change it - which again is unlikely since there are enough people who have a vested interest in maintaining the status quo.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;So-called “Black people” and “African-Americans”, their history notwithstanding, need to play a more significant role in defining what it means to just be American.&#8221;</p>
<p>Heh. Looks like I missed a sentence. All I can say is that if the definition of America is changed to accommodate the richness of peoples here (which I think is a good idea), then that would mean that everyone in the world could/would be considered American since people from all over the world reside here. And for obvious economic reasons (see my capitalism post) that cannot happen. Hence the color stratification of &#8220;Americans&#8221;. So, to summarize, first you can ignore my post above because I basically repeated what you said. Second, the participation of people of color in sociopolitical circles/arenas is unlikely to be welcomed for the above reason, which leads to thirdly, you have a straightforward solution (or at least the beginnings of one) that is unlikely to be implemented unless Americans as a whole understand the entirety of the &#8220;American experience&#8221; and come together to change it &#8211; which again is unlikely since there are enough people who have a vested interest in maintaining the status quo.</p>
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		<title>By: phantomThought</title>
		<link>http://godheval.net/black/comment-page-1/#comment-640</link>
		<dc:creator>phantomThought</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 04 Nov 2009 05:13:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://godheval.net/wordpress/?p=7#comment-640</guid>
		<description>Clear analysis and concisely delivered post, Godheval. However, I will say that I find your conclusion and solution lacking. You say:

&quot;I would say one ideal would be – as I mentioned earlier – to fully claim American-ness, to wrest it from white exclusivity.&quot;

The problem that I see with this is that to unhinge American-ness from white exclusivity is like taking a police officer&#039;s badge from him/her - that person ceases to be a police officer immediately. Similarly, America without whiteness is nothing. America is a carefully crafted and controlled experiment (the &quot;great democratic experiment&quot;) wherein people who take part lose their former cultural/ethnic identity and are reshaped into history-less, custom-less, and tradition-less drones. A fictitious identity based on skin-color is given them complete with obligations, taboos, social standing, and even a &quot;destiny&quot;. You realize this when you say:

&quot;Blackness, as I’ve said, is not a characteristic of anyone. It is something that was and continues to be inflicted upon a perceived group of people. In other words, no one is born black, but rather they are “blackened” by society. Just as different peoples of European descent “bleached” themselves in taking on a white identity in order to benefit from the corollary status advantages.&quot;

However, I would hesitate to say all Europeans chose to &quot;bleach&quot; themselves. Many were split between staying in their home country and starving or coming to America and becoming white. So, they were forced to accept the rules of the American race game as well. Setting that aside to get back to the main point, I would say that &quot;black&quot; people can&#039;t claim American-ness any more than they already have. After all, American society is what gave them the &quot;black&quot; experience and identity in the first place. You say:

&quot;This means claiming it through our language, through our self-estimation, through our actions, such as being more active in the socio-political process.&quot;

This has and does happen already. It was/is the early abolitionists, the Civil Rights movement, &quot;black is beautiful&quot;, black nationalism and separatism, hip hop culture, the attempt to redefine/claim the word &quot;n*gger&quot;, etc. All of these were/are an attempt to forge a positive identity out of the largely, if not entirely, negative American experience (which for people of color is the definition of American-ness). At this point in time (like you mentioned), people referred to as black are so genetically mixed up and culturally diluted that using Africa as a source of identity is unlikely to be successful. So on what should &quot;black&quot; people forge a non-&quot;blackness&quot; identity?  If they were to claim the &quot;white&quot; experience as dictated by America (because that is what you are unintentionally arguing for it seems), would that be even desirable? That would include becoming ignorant of the rest of the world, schizophrenic in what one says and what one does, a stunting of human empathy, a lack of global consciousness, etc. I think the situation is that you have a large number of people, &quot;white&quot;, &quot;black&quot;, &quot;brown&quot;, etc. who have been stripped of any cultural/ethnic identity and experience and can only claim an identity within the American system which polarizes them against one another. To fix this, America needs a reboot in everything from definition to implementation. Nothing short of this will even get close to mending this pervasive and invasive problem. At least that&#039;s how I see it. I&#039;m not suggesting violent revolution or anything, more along the lines of raising awareness of the situation and taking deliberate mental steps outside of the mind trap that Americans are raised to think in. Or, of course, I&#039;ve completely misread your post and this is all completely off point :P</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Clear analysis and concisely delivered post, Godheval. However, I will say that I find your conclusion and solution lacking. You say:</p>
<p>&#8220;I would say one ideal would be – as I mentioned earlier – to fully claim American-ness, to wrest it from white exclusivity.&#8221;</p>
<p>The problem that I see with this is that to unhinge American-ness from white exclusivity is like taking a police officer&#8217;s badge from him/her &#8211; that person ceases to be a police officer immediately. Similarly, America without whiteness is nothing. America is a carefully crafted and controlled experiment (the &#8220;great democratic experiment&#8221;) wherein people who take part lose their former cultural/ethnic identity and are reshaped into history-less, custom-less, and tradition-less drones. A fictitious identity based on skin-color is given them complete with obligations, taboos, social standing, and even a &#8220;destiny&#8221;. You realize this when you say:</p>
<p>&#8220;Blackness, as I’ve said, is not a characteristic of anyone. It is something that was and continues to be inflicted upon a perceived group of people. In other words, no one is born black, but rather they are “blackened” by society. Just as different peoples of European descent “bleached” themselves in taking on a white identity in order to benefit from the corollary status advantages.&#8221;</p>
<p>However, I would hesitate to say all Europeans chose to &#8220;bleach&#8221; themselves. Many were split between staying in their home country and starving or coming to America and becoming white. So, they were forced to accept the rules of the American race game as well. Setting that aside to get back to the main point, I would say that &#8220;black&#8221; people can&#8217;t claim American-ness any more than they already have. After all, American society is what gave them the &#8220;black&#8221; experience and identity in the first place. You say:</p>
<p>&#8220;This means claiming it through our language, through our self-estimation, through our actions, such as being more active in the socio-political process.&#8221;</p>
<p>This has and does happen already. It was/is the early abolitionists, the Civil Rights movement, &#8220;black is beautiful&#8221;, black nationalism and separatism, hip hop culture, the attempt to redefine/claim the word &#8220;n*gger&#8221;, etc. All of these were/are an attempt to forge a positive identity out of the largely, if not entirely, negative American experience (which for people of color is the definition of American-ness). At this point in time (like you mentioned), people referred to as black are so genetically mixed up and culturally diluted that using Africa as a source of identity is unlikely to be successful. So on what should &#8220;black&#8221; people forge a non-&#8221;blackness&#8221; identity?  If they were to claim the &#8220;white&#8221; experience as dictated by America (because that is what you are unintentionally arguing for it seems), would that be even desirable? That would include becoming ignorant of the rest of the world, schizophrenic in what one says and what one does, a stunting of human empathy, a lack of global consciousness, etc. I think the situation is that you have a large number of people, &#8220;white&#8221;, &#8220;black&#8221;, &#8220;brown&#8221;, etc. who have been stripped of any cultural/ethnic identity and experience and can only claim an identity within the American system which polarizes them against one another. To fix this, America needs a reboot in everything from definition to implementation. Nothing short of this will even get close to mending this pervasive and invasive problem. At least that&#8217;s how I see it. I&#8217;m not suggesting violent revolution or anything, more along the lines of raising awareness of the situation and taking deliberate mental steps outside of the mind trap that Americans are raised to think in. Or, of course, I&#8217;ve completely misread your post and this is all completely off point <img src='http://godheval.net/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_razz.gif' alt=':P' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
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		<title>By: Godheval</title>
		<link>http://godheval.net/black/comment-page-1/#comment-637</link>
		<dc:creator>Godheval</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 02 Nov 2009 07:00:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://godheval.net/wordpress/?p=7#comment-637</guid>
		<description>There is not much more I can tell you about myself - especially on what I stand for - than what you can find by browsing through the site.  As for what I do - I&#039;m a student, probably for life.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>There is not much more I can tell you about myself &#8211; especially on what I stand for &#8211; than what you can find by browsing through the site.  As for what I do &#8211; I&#8217;m a student, probably for life.</p>
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		<title>By: Bruno Mazereel</title>
		<link>http://godheval.net/black/comment-page-1/#comment-636</link>
		<dc:creator>Bruno Mazereel</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 01 Nov 2009 08:34:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://godheval.net/wordpress/?p=7#comment-636</guid>
		<description>Godheval, who are you, what do you do, what do you stand for ?
Your posts are intriguing; I wish to know the person behind the blog.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Godheval, who are you, what do you do, what do you stand for ?<br />
Your posts are intriguing; I wish to know the person behind the blog.</p>
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